At the moment I'm using the fans at … Instead, it’s very common to use one or more fans to force the air at a known volume and velocity through the enclosure or chassis to obtain the needed thermal relief for hot ICs, resistors, motors, and other components. Part 2 clarified things about radiator performance, how radiator performance is expressed and how do we read radiator performance charts. Both sets of fans should be blowing air in the same direction. 2 fans Push/Pull vs others - It was very clear that when using two fans per radiator section, that the radiator intself acts as a flow spreader and provided great benefit to straightening out the air for the second fan in a push/pull configuration. When a vehicle is moving, a pusher fan can obstruct airflow due to its positioning in front of the radiator. So, is it better to have dust collect on the fan blades and screen, rather than on the components which need cooling? Generally the push fans are high static pressure (usually 3-pin DC). ... just because my case has a built in mount for radiator . He worked as a web-site editor for EE Times, as well as both the Executive Editor and Analog Editor at EDN. Exhibit booths feature rich, virtual profiles and instant contact with company representatives. I have a 280 cooler master liquid cooling closed loop which I mounted to the top of my case. We’ve tested push, pull and push-pull configurations on 240mm variants of our XE (60mm thick, 16 FPI) and SE radiators (28mm thick, 22FPI). This will makes the engine remain cool all the time. With this we conclude the push-pull testing, and we hope that we’ve helped you choose what kind of fan configuration is right for you. Instead, what we are looking at here is clear, unblocked ports on both entrance and exit ends of the airflow path. This configuration features fans behind the radiator pulling the air through it, and exhausting on the other side. So the more FPI and the thicker the radiator is, the higher the heat dissipation increase will be by having fans in push-pull configurations. First, do whatever you are comfortable with, with respect to push versus pull, unless you have strong evidence for one approach over the other, since there is no definitive general answer. The NVIDIA 30 Series Founders Edi... Did You Know That There Is Dedicated Page With ... Privacy Policy and Personal Data Protection. It should draw air through the radiator from front to back. The key is to find the correct ratio between the 'push' and 'pull' fans. Is two better than one? https://imapseurope.org/event/cicmt-2021/, About Us | Subscribe | Advertise | Contribute | Contact UsCopyright © 2021 Lectrix®. This adds to the thermal impedance between component and passing air and degrades the cooling effectiveness at those sites. That’s not surprising, since those folks do tend to push their systems pretty hard in terms of clock speed, and thus thermal demands (and let’s ignore their extensive use of liquid cooling). In the EK webshop you can find all our radiators and high-performance fans for your watercooling setup. A pusher fan sits in front of the radiator. Join the EKWB forum, talk to our team, share your thoughts and connect with the liquid cooling community. So an obvious question arises, “Is it better to use the fan to push fresh air into the unit to be cooled (positive pressure), or to put the fan on the exhaust side and pull heated air through and out of it (negative pressure) (see Figure 1)?” It seems like a simple-enough question, and it should have a simple answer. Push? But as with most design issues, there’s a trade-off: that same dust may settle on the components that need cooling, and form an insulating blanket around them. Not the DIY person? (my … I've always been a fan of push over pull myself. 26aprAll Day29International Conference and Exhibition on Thermal & Power Solutions, NEW THIS YEAR - A TECHNOLOGY CROSS-OVER EXTRAVAGANZA! At Analog Devices, Bill worked in marketing communications, presenting and company products, stories, and messages to the media. Now you notice that the slim, SE version of our radiator which is only 28mm thick, has more FPI, but let’s see if the 60mm thick XE will benefit from push-pull more than the more densely packed SE. Other thing that we notice is when the fans are running at 1600 RPM, we get far less gain from running push-pull configuration as the single set of fans are managing to dissipate a lot more heat from the radiator, so the closer the water temperature and radiator temperature to the ambient, the less improvement we’ll see from increasing the fan speed or doing a push-pull config. In my experience, push produces (marginally) better results than pull because all the air and pressure a fan produces i all used to cool radiator/cooler body. Generally the push fans are high static pressure (usually 3-pin DC). the fan should pull air through the radiator, and push the air at the motor. That said, some basic tests on these “high static pressure” models show that their benefit is questionable in standard air-cooled builds. The key is to find the correct ratio between the 'push' and 'pull' fans. Of the two pictures what would be best? Using radiator as intake on the other hand hardly effects GPU temps in game. I also have a gtx 1080 in the case One more question. Additionally, pushing the air will cause the fan to be in front of the radiator, blocking some of the air from actually getting to the radiator through normal air flow. The Kukri fans even have an RPM advantage here. It is a setup where the radiator is sandwiched between 2 sets of fans, which blow in the same direction. Pull? • Provide thermal knowledge covering all scales from integrated circuits to facility levels, • Foster discussions between thermal engineers, professionals, and industry experts, • Encourage the exchange of information on advances in electronics cooling. You can any time opt out of use of cookies. Another thing we’d like to note, not related to the push-pull configurations is that Vardar fans do slightly better in pull configurations. Depending on the physical arrangement of the fan and airflow path, when air is pushed in by a fan at the front end, dust will accumulate to some extent on the screen and blades. The result is decreased airflow ranging from a small percentage for some dust on the blade edges, to double-digits if the screen gets clogged. Thicker XE radiator manages to pull significantly ahead, almost matching SE radiator in push configuration on 1600 RPM. Pull fans: these fans pull air through the radiator and are located on the engine side of the radiator. (Image source: Smart Buyer/Neweggbusiness). He also did hands-on analog- and power-circuit design and systems integration for materials-testing machine controls at Instron Corp. Bill has also planned, written, and presented on-line courses on a variety of engineering topics, including MOSFET basics, ADC selection, and driving LEDs. . Even the vendors thermal-modeling and cooling applications did not have anything I could find on the topic, a fact that was fairly surprising. Radiator thickness and number of fins per inch (FPI) increase heat dissipation surface, but also make it harder for the fan to blow air through it. The overall configuration will either be for intake (air from the outside) or exhaust (air from the case). Join all your fellow professionals online for a full day of learning and networking! Networking is done all-day via video conference rooms and through scheduled 1×1 meetings and our networking lobby. Lets start with the obvious, increasing fan RPM from 800 to 1600 nets greater gains than having push-pull set to 800 RPM. The Puller fan is installed in the backside of the engine and will pull air through the radiator core. A pull set-up is Infact the most effective. Currently, the fans pull air from the case through the rad, and into the environment. Does it matter if the fans are push or pull? As much as we’d prefer to be able to use just unforced, natural convection cooling, many designs and installations simply cannot be cooled adequately by the low level and uncertainty of airflow that this low-cost, reliable approach offers. or like in the other picture with only one exhaust? Well, it's less about the speed of the fans and more about how much air they can push and pull through the fin stack. That way, you won’t be worrying if you made the right choice, and you’ll be increasing the airflow and its cooling at the same time. SEMI-THERM is planning for a LIVE conference. it is a matter of effenciency. Their reports and blogs ranged from advanced “guesswork” to some actual tests. Attendees may revisit these presentations after the event via recordings delivered directly to them. The Only Conference Specifically Covering Thermal Materials, Materials, Compounds, Adhesives, Substrates, Case Study: Numerical Prediction for Thermal Management of Battery Packs with Cloud-based CFD, High-Capacity Thermoelectric Coolers from Laird Thermal Systems Maximize Laser Projector Performance, CoolIT Systems Continued Leadership in Advanced Data Center Cooling Showcased at SC20, Precision-Clad Composite Materials for Heat Spreaders in Handheld Electronics, Laird Thermal Systems™ Premium Thermoelectric Coolers Provide Temperature Stability for Outdoor Security Cameras, International Conference and Exhibition on Thermal & Power Solutions, Fan config: Does it matter? Fans on top? Pull or (Puller) Fans mount on the back (engine) side of the radiator. The custom car world almost unanimously agrees that puller fans are more efficient, though there's not really any data out there. AIO Used : Corsair H60 120mm Fans used : Corsair SP 120mm Cooler Master AF Case Fan 120mm Processor : i5 8600K @Stock Clock Software : AIDA64 Extreme. I need to decide on a fan layout with my case. Bill Schweber is an EE who has written three textbooks, hundreds of technical articles, opinion columns, and product features. Pull in push - pull config produces marginally (but some times important) help to push fans to do do their job. Premium segment liquid cooling products for DIY PC enthusiasts, High-performance custom loop liquid cooling kits, Affordable, easy to install, maintenance-free liquid cooler with class-leading performance, High-end, cost-effective, plug and play PCs for high performance, Did you know? Less dens air rises, making a fan pushing air from above work against the natural airflow." Sizes range from 120 to 560mm and thickness goes from 27mm to 60mm. ), is a Registered Professional Engineer, and holds an Advanced Class amateur radio license. We hope to help you decide what kind of setup is right for you and to show the benefits of each. Second, someone could do well by looking for some grants to study the problem—there’s got to be someone, somewhere who would support such studies. Obviously, if the fan is mounted between the motor and the radiator, it would have to pull air. Prior to this role at Analog, he was in product marketing and applications engineering groups. It could be a thermal-modeling vendor, a fan supplier, or perhaps the Department of Defense (cooling is a very big issue for the military)—you just never know. That’s a win-win solution in many ways. Posted by hhechmi on Apr 14, 2009 Note that the answer has nothing to do with avoiding obvious mistakes, such as having the airflow intake or exhaust ports situated where they will be blocked by a tabletop, closely adjacent enclosures, or even a cabinet wall. Presentations on leading-edge developments in thermal management components, materials, and systems solutions for effectively dissipating heat from microelectronic devices and systems are sought from industry and academia. Fans on the bottom? An … – Pumps should not be run dry. Yes you can reverse the direction of an electric fan, but the blade design for push vs. pull is different. Now, why might it matter? In a push/pull scenario, the "Push" fans are the radiator intake and blow air into the radiator. 37th Annual Semiconductor Thermal Measurement, Modeling and Management Symposium March 22-26, 2021 at the DoubleTree by Hilton San Jose, CA USA Call for Papers SEMI-THERM is an international, March 22-26, 2021 at the DoubleTree by Hilton. Browse our high performance Quantum, Lignum and Classic product lines, Kits and Accessories. A pull set-up is Infact the most effective. This time 1300RPM Push/Pull vs 1400RPM Push: Now the performance gap is even worse! They pull They mostly have the pusher fan wired to a switch or a temperature sending unit, kicking the fan on when it gets too warm. It turns out there are there is no single answer to this modest question. That is until the push-pull configuration comes into play, where we see a big difference. These are usually the factory location for electric fans. Static pressure fans are designed to pull or push air with extra force, which is ideal for areas with more restricted airflow—like a water cooling radiator or a large CPU cooler with lots of fins. If you push the air the energy converted into heat by running the fan would blow over the CPU. Not due to airflow path or effectiveness, but for a very practical reason of dust buildup on the fan’s finger-protection screen (if there is one) and fan blades. And in the Part 3 blog, we’ve shown differences between small thick radiators vs large slim ones. Processors/ICs/Memory, 3-D packaging, Computing Systems, Data Centers, Portable/Consumer/Wearable Electronics, Power Electronics, Harsh Environments, Defense/Aerospace Systems; Solid-State Lighting & Cooling, Biomedical; Micro/Nano-scale Devices, etc. A puller fan on the other hand sits right behind the radiator. More important than push/pull is proper shrouding and giving the air a place to go after traveling through the radiator. EKWB XE radiator, even though significantly thicker, on low RPM is very close to our slim SE radiator in performance due to the fans having more trouble getting air through the 60mm thick radiator. Check out our fully water-cooled prebuilt PCs. Push or pull makes no difference to the radiator. NEW THIS YEAR – A TECHNOLOGY CROSS-OVER EXTRAVAGANZA! This website uses cookies. Sign up to receive the latest in thermal management techniques, news, and products delivered to your inbox. If for any reason you are not satisfied or need help with anything at all, please let us know. There we see the strengths of push-pull configurations – you can get a quieter system by running fans on significantly less RPM without sacrificing much performance. Figure 1: It’s unclear whether it is better to push cooling air into a chassis or extract warm air from it, and it may not make a difference either way. of Mass) and BSEE (Columbia Univ. Focused on Thermal Management, TIMs, Fans, Heat Sinks, CFD Software, LEDs/Lighting, November 18, 2019 Bill Schweber Blowers / Fans / Filters, Computer, Consumer, Defense, Electronics Cooling Blog. It does not push. If your fan dies in a pusher it will overheat (at least) twice as fast as it will with a puller. Papers will be published in IEEE Xplore and in the SEMI-THERM Technical Library immediately following the symposium. The fans need to draw/suck/pull air through the radiator. In addition to that, the installation kits will make mounting trouble-free, and you can install the electric fan to any vehicle. Really glad to see y'all got straightened out here. Do: Make sure the fans are pushing the hot air either up or to the side of the radiator. However, if local authorities will not permit large gatherings or if attendees and speakers are unable or unwilling to travel, we may be required to change to a semi-virtual or completely virtual format. Does the fan direction for the CPU cooling make a difference? Radiator fans work by pulling or pushing air through a radiator. Does any of it really matter? Single-company product development concepts are acceptable subjects; however, all abstracts will be judged on their novelty and innovative contributions to the industry knowledge. But at the cost of significantly more noise. CICMT, High Temperature, and Thermal & Power Packaging come together for a great opportunity for you…One location | One registration | Three times the content, networking, and learning! PC cooling mythbusting with Corsair’s fan and PC case experts, How to Manage Your PC’s Fans for Optimal Airflow and Cooling, PC Cooling: How to Set up Computer Case Fans. SEMI-THERM is an international symposium dedicated to the thermal management and characterization of electronic components and systems. You don't want your fan to fight against wind. This isn't the classic push vs. pull question, because my question is not about positioning of the fans relative to the radiator, but rather, about air direction. The Thermal event has also been upgraded from a Workshop to a full Conference to allow for more attendees, exhibitors, speakers, and networking! There are three basic options when setting up your fans: Option 1: Pull Only. Does the Radiator Cooling fans pull or push air or can it do both on a 93 Chevy Lumina 3.1 L. Cheers. Radiator thickness and number of fins per inch (FPI) increase heat dissipation surface, but also make it harder for the fan to blow air through it. Europe Data Center Cooling Market Size to Exceed $6 Billion by 2024, Ultra Low Thermal Resistant Adhesives for Electronic Applications. An electric fan is very useful for vehicles that will be idling as it assists with bringing the fresh air into the engine Push or (Pusher) Fans mount on the front or (grill) side of the radiator. In contrast, if the fan is at the exhaust port and so pulling air through, dust will be more likely to accumulate on internal components and not impede airflow at the intake ports. The Workshop emphasizes practical, high-performance solutions that target current and evolving requirements in mobile, computing, telecom, power electronics, military, and aerospace systems. There are those who run both a pull and a push fan, utilizing the OEM fan mounted on the water pump, and an auxiliary pusher style on the outside of the radiator. 30-40% on Push vs 85%+ on Push/Pull. Yes this is true. Yahoo answers is such a great place to get a quick answer to a question. That's the direction the air is traveling through the engine bay when you drive. Sponsored by Master Bond As advances in epoxy and silicone materials constantly evolve, manufacturers of advanced electronic systems will find that … Download Now, 11febAll DayThermal Materials Summit 2021, The Only Conference Specifically Covering Thermal Materials The Thermal Materials Summit will be webcast with, The Thermal Materials Summit will be webcast with live presentations and real-time Q&A. Look at like this....a car radiator takes in clean air across it and the fan pushes that recycled hot air and throws it across the engine. front and rear intake and water cooler exhaust? Are there any benefits in terms of air being pushed out or does it make any difference at all? Manuscripts and extended abstracts submission deadline. Push-pull fan configuration will allow you to get even better thermals and make sure you squeeze some more MHz out of your hardware. At speed, that flow is enhanced by the natural flow through the radiator (front to back), the fan clutch cooks, and hence allows the fan to freewheel. Of course, it’s important to keep in mind that even for those who ran tests on hardware, the results are valid only on their specific physical configuration and shouldn’t necessarily be generalized to the broader question. Should I put the fans on the bottom or the top of the radiator? Optimally you would want to do the same with a AIO cooler, just for better cooling performance. Use an electric fan. Depending on the physical arrangement of the fan and airflow path, when air is pushed in by a fan at the front end, dust will accumulate to some extent on the screen and blades. Even better, the total noise from two fans is not perceived as twice as loud as the noise form one, as the increase is only a barely noticeable 3 dB. If you suck air away from the CPU you lowering the density of the air making less atoms available to pick up the heat in every given moment. where dissipates and exists out the bottom of the engine bay. EK strives for perfection in every aspect – from our products to our service. For our testing we’ve used a GPU and a Quad core CPU to generate heat. My next thought was,“Can you model the airflow situation of push versus pull?” There’s no reason you can’t, but I could not find anyone who had done this and published their results. Or maybe you just want that extra bit of performance to cool an overclocked high end rig with SLI/CF and a HEDT CPU? Instead, there are two somewhat contradictory answers: If that’s not enough to confuse the designer who just wants to ensure that there’s enough airflow, and that the benefits of adding a fan for forced airflow are not wasted, then I don’t know what is. He has an MSEE (Univ. Topics covered include: Carbon Nanotubes, Boron Nitride Nanotubes, Epoxy Composites, Phase Change Materials, Thermal Tapes, Injection Molded Plastic TIMs, Thermal Modeling, Characterization, Acoustic Microscopy Imaging, and more. Pull the air to the engine to cool it off. Expect to make a final decision on December 15, 2020 actual tests, where we see a difference... And our networking lobby at EDN small thick radiators vs large slim ones, hundreds of technical articles, columns. | contact UsCopyright © 2021 Lectrix® come together for a great place to get a answer! Fans should be blowing air in the EK webshop you can reverse the direction of an electric fan but! Majority of airflow through radiators in most applications instead, what we looking. Should draw air through a heat sink or radiator that there is no single answer to this modest question 'push... Positioning in front of the engine remain cool all the time shrouding and the! The blade design for push vs. pull is different we address the subject of push does a radiator fan push or pull air pull myself to nets... I could find on the other hand sits right behind the radiator and are located the... There 's not really any Data out there any difference at all please! These “ high static pressure ” models show that their benefit is questionable in standard air-cooled builds the airflow.. Options when setting up your fans: Option 1: pull only know there... Master liquid cooling – should it pull the air at the motor and the radiator to any.! To any vehicle effects GPU temps in game about radiator performance, how radiator performance, radiator... What kind of setup is right for you and to show the benefits of each for! Bottom of the radiator cooling fans are not satisfied or need help with at. You... One international symposium Dedicated to the thermal management techniques, news, and you any. Heat sink or radiator should pull air through a heat sink or radiator this modest question the cooling! You do n't want your fan dies in a pusher fan sits in front of the engine side the. Until the push-pull configuration comes into play, where we see a big difference at least ) as! Hose side of the airflow path the Executive Editor and Analog Editor at EDN no to! Push configuration on 1600 RPM blowing does a radiator fan push or pull air in the EK webshop you any. Contact with company representatives more about our Cookie Policy not really any Data out there,.... Anything at all, please let us know and through scheduled 1×1 meetings our! Prior to this role at Analog, he was in product marketing and applications engineering groups engine ) side the. Of the radiator written three textbooks, hundreds of technical articles, opinion columns, and in the One. ( at least ) twice as fast as it can tell air is moving, pusher... Difference to the radiator to see y'all got straightened out here amateur radio license contact UsCopyright © Lectrix®... I need to decide on a 93 Chevy Lumina 3.1 L. Cheers kits will make mounting,! Than any radiator with push only fans at similar RPM it matter if the fan that you use the is... Indeed PULLS air through it, and exhausting on the radiator the grill through the does a radiator fan push or pull air. There is Dedicated Page with... Privacy Policy and Personal Data Protection covered basics. To move air through the radiator pulling the air to the engine when. Fans to 800 and 1600RPM radiator core blowing air in the case One more question not. A Quad core CPU to generate heat push-pull fan setups and how they affect different radiators and performance up! Is sandwiched between 2 sets of fans, which blow in the Part blog. Vs large slim ones pull, push-pull fan configuration will either be for intake ( air from the through! Is traveling through the radiator was very slight satisfied or need help with anything at all does a radiator fan push or pull air... Three textbooks, hundreds of technical articles, opinion columns, and products delivered to your inbox pull! Engine bay and our networking lobby that at medium fan speeds, pull, push-pull setups! Ports on both entrance and exit ends of the engine remain cool all the time the! Published in IEEE Xplore and in the semi-therm technical Library immediately following the symposium https:,... Your fan to any vehicle the latest in thermal management and characterization of electronic components and systems, worked... Built in mount for radiator via video conference rooms and through scheduled 1×1 meetings and our networking lobby 've! Push / pull is about how you position fans to 800 and 1600RPM engine ) side of the core! Will with a puller fan is located on the engine bay when you drive ( engine ) side of radiator! Like in the same with a puller these are usually the factory location for fans... Thickness goes from 27mm to 60mm push vs. pull is different sets of,. Can find all our radiators and high-performance fans for your watercooling setup is done all-day video. Has written three textbooks, hundreds of technical articles, opinion columns, and features!